Anti Strategy

Will only give a brief synopsis as required, this thread will assume you have read Wiggle's post

View Wiggles post on the strategy @
https://vendetta-fw.forumotion.com/t174-5-common-gvg-positioning-strategies-by-envy#2654

Each counter has it's own post for easier reading. Feel free to read and critique. Or ignore that's cool too cheerio!
1) Antistack

Simple attack, has a simple countermeasure. AoEs are key at this point. With that many targets grouped up, having a clump of AoEs shred these kind of groups to ribbons. Don't rush in if you are single target DPS. Unless you one shot everyone you won't be able to do much on your own. If you can take hits your job would be to work distraction. Using ampy's breaker/aoe combo idea, a team of hit takers rushes in as a distraction. Elemental warriors and prots are key here for anti aoes, as our AoEs set up and wipe the field.

Be mindful of their elemental warriors and prots. The reflect can destroy ice and wind mages specifically. To counter this, fire mages, glacial priests, water bards, should aoe and target them specifically. The reason for these classes is that they're strongest aoes only hit once. Also, blood vamps can use bloodrite/withering space/feast combos to hit prots and warrs hard because this attack does not activate reflect requirements.

2) AntiChase

This tactic is used to divide and conquer. Simplest thing is to stay together. Move as 1 and the chase is just a waste of time till the actual fight occurs. In the case that the chase route is longer than necessary, vampires and warriors can galewing/feast and assault respectively to immobilize while the rest of the stack arrives.

Again do not leave the group

3) AntiWedge

This tactic uses timing baiting, and surprise attacks. Essentially heavies "grab aggro" by being the first ones to be seen. Then groups surround from the side to strike towards the center. Defeating this is like defeating say.. a bard. It's all about timing and holding them back before they build up strength. There is a moment that the wedge must switch from defense to offense. That moment is what needs to be stopped. This can be done with control spells. Freeze, sleep, stuns are to name a few. Ruining the timing can destroy this formation.

Furthermore, another thing not taken into account is the amount of space required for this. The stack and the chase can both be utilized in very small areas, allowing for masses to clump together and adapt like water through a pipe. The wedge requires movement and if the area is too small, they essentially become a 2 part stack that gets AoE'd to hell. In this sense, bottlenecks are advantageous. Anyone seen the 300? Same concept... cept done right...

4) AntiPincer

This tactic is a bit easier to go against. It requires timing, and thus all you need to do is mess up that timing. Pincers must be done with long range targets to be effective. The reason is, if you use melee characters, they will all move towards the center where the enemy is. This effectively becomes... another stack. Everyone is nearby and everyone can get AoE'd

For instances, X's Represent Enemies and O's represent allies This tactic is assuming same amount of players on both sides thus 2 x's 2 o's

x oo x In this situation, o can be attacked on both sides and cannot effectively aoe.

However if x's are melee

xoox AoE viable.

There are several methods to fight.
Tactic 1: wait and strike method that can be done by vampires, bards, and wind mages. Bards have aoe sleep, vampires have feast, wind mages have purgatory of lightning. All of these skills are non target and thus hit all around effectively hitting both x without them getting too close.

Tactic 2: Strike first. Imagine again the first scenario, you have both targets far apart and coming at you... you don't have none target AoEs and have to either hope they're all melee... or.... strike first.
You go from
x oo x
to
x oo x

With over whelming strength you can strike one pincer side effectively and wipe it out before the other side can reach you. Problem is: Everyone must be in constant communication to know which side to hit. Further more, this pincer must be seen coming.

Tactic 3: Constantly moving. Pincer techniques are difficult to set up in that they require a lot of time. If the group moves, unless they stumble into an ambush it is difficult to get hit by it

Tactic 4: Using the land. Like the wedge, pincers require a certain land requirement. 2 Entrances that are suitably apart. This is not reasonably possible at any of the mine locations for 2 reasons. One, with the cliffs, putting your back to a wall lets you see everything in front. Furthermore, the time it takes to get to the other ramp in order to set up a semi useful pincer, the mine would be taken and the target would move on. Do not assume however it cannot happen. But use the land to your advantage so that it cannot.

5: AntiEnvelopement

This is essentially chase with a pincer/wedge attack. It's everything combined while using psychological uses. Bait them in, surround, and destroy. It is useful, it is reliable, and for those who don't pay attention deadly. This strategy, more than others is affected by the tunnelvision of the targets. If the defenders are observant and attentive, nothing should happen. This strategy is also affected by the land. It requires a large space to work, otherwise you can see the attack coming a mile away. This is best utilized in valleys where people can swoop down (swooping is bad... props if you get the reference) If you are chasing an enemy into an area that can be easily accessed on either side, use caution.
Again x's and o's

x x

x

ooo

Left and right most x's are "hidden"



x x x

ooo

Chase

x

x ooo x

Pincer ambush GG

Solution: Wait

. x <= rages

x x



. ooo <= twiddles thumbs

Obviously that's over simplified, but again this strategy as all others... can be beaten by simply avoiding them. More on this later

Will maybe use actual pictures later to facilitate seeing as this stupid thing doesn't keep spacing...

I do not understand military strategy at all, so you'll forgive me if i haveno idea wat you're talking about?

These look very nice and well seem easy to set up. Assuming people actually follow them we can easily counter most of the other guilds.

Well someone would have to show me how it would work, then i will follow

Well yeah, if you pretty much follow your party leader you should be fine, as they will all be told the plan.

I was kinda confused when I read Resei's post so I googled pics
The formations make more sense with pics >8D
The Wedge:


The Pincer:


Btw, I love this

blue_ghost wrote:

. ooo <= twiddles thumbs

the wedge if I'm not mistaken is like a V formation. Imagine a flock of ducks? The head is the heavy guys and the wings swing out to and hit from the sides when the tip hits first.

Pincer is probably the easiest to picture... hit same place from 2 sides... and yea..

I'm an Accountant, yo. We don't deal with wedges and pincers QQ!!

accountants sound kinda useless...

We just sit around and pretend we're working >8D

Engineers are where its at

Wonder where I can find a friendly neighbourhood engineer... >.>

I don't know, they like to hide and have sexual aliases at night

but make sure you get a good engineer... one that maybe knows thermo...

Well looks like one of them is out of the picture

I'm sorry, what? Am I suppose to call Sendo's half-naked Thermo prof to save the day?

She should be able to help